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The crude VIII on each barrel aren't proof marks but a means to ensure matching tubes for this set of barrels. Please someone let me know that they know about these Belgian doubles! The Most specimen marks are of this nature, and it is no unusual thing to find the marks of two different smiths upon the same weapon, one man signing the lock work, the other being the barrel maker. After this, the firearm is examined to make sure it is still intact and if so, the metal (usually the barrel) is stamped with . As the old saying has it, "The buyer needs a thousand eyes; the seller, only one." Since the U.S. has no proofing houses (as in England, France, Germany and . Jacquemart-Pirotte Joseph Jamar & Cie Jamar Frres Jamar Jean Henri Jamar J. H. & Soleil & Smits Jamar-Smits Jean Henri Jamar Michel Jamin Marcel Jamri J. H. Jans Jansen Adolphe Janssen Fils & Cie Janssen Frres Janson Auguste Jaspar J. JBL Job T. Joiris Joiris & Geurten Joiris Jean, Vandenbergh G & Geurten J. Joiris Joseph Jolet Joseph individual armorers and inspectors used their own unique stamps in some The mark is applied after the gun has passed the Belgian proof. On top between the barrels "CANONS ACIER GARANTI". Mark for voluntary treble temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels, Mark for voluntary double temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels. Are you sure they are Damascus and not perhaps fake Damascus made by etching a spiral pattern on solid steel barrels for those who liked the look of Damascus? this book online and pay it through Paypal. They are often found in combination with proof-marks, and still more frequently on unproved arms made in countries where no official proof was existent. Bury Jules. Stevans): cant verify it is Maj. Doan, but on his hip is a pistol, which looks alike a 7 in. On the bottom of the barrel it has the proof mark like number 9 (E,L,G,) (no crown). It's very old but I'd like to know more about it. Tullea three spiked crown or mitre above a capital E (as shown below). L. L. Hepburn percussion combination rifle, .36 cal. Clment Walter R. Medina on October 31, 2020: ttn intnl model 1878 s/n 4751. michael v ventimiglia on October 30, 2020: new england firearms ( N G 001039 ) model r22 ultra mini. Christophe & Montigny Thanks. . Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium - Wikipedia Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium Help Belgium portal Aggregate of articles pertaining to firearms manufacturers in Belgium . production. Would that appear at this location on the piece?What Im attempting to do, is get this pistol appraised; thus the research to discover all the markings. Behr Jean jacques Any maker's name on the rib between the barrels?Best,Gerry, 1902 a greener twobarrel it has hh on botten of barrel what do i have. Each gun maker is presented with the maximum of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most . Bauduin Charles But despite the history the belgian proof stamps are rather straight forward, normally one can't get more information from the proof more than it has been done if one can't find the inspectors mark. Long Beach, CA: Safari Press, 2000. Then emigrated to Belgium at the end of 1859. to identify the manufacturer. Bertrand Joseph Bouquin Ad Arendt Maurice I'm a ypunger collector/gun activist. Underneath the whole appears the word St. Etienne. A "Greener" double? Belgian shotguns are still finely-made firearms and are considered some of the best to come out of Europe. . Colleye Henri Joseph Bernard Victor & Cie Today, Belgian firearms designer Francotte builds famed double barreled shotguns and fine rifles. determination. 2 On barrel locking system or chamber if the lumps are part of the barrel after final black powder proof, Preliminary proof for unfinished barrels, and indicated barrels had not been weakened after proof by breeching, Used on muzzle loaders, Bore diameter in millimeters. The 1136 is engraved on the bottom of the barrel. Hi, your shotgun was made after 1924 due to the Perron-Liege proof marks. If the price seems too good to be true, it probably is. St. Etienne, in France, established its proof house in the reign of Francis I., at the beginning of the sixteenth century. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. In fact, that pattern was considered as adding to the beauty of a gun and therefore highly desireable. If you are interested in import, export, or wholesale purchase of shotguns, theres no better place than AmmoTerra to find a buyer or supplier of military equipment. I recently decided to clean it up. presented below is the first of the series and is covering the gunmakers whose names are Hand Guns 3 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . Classic Arms Importers and manufacturers of blackpowder guns and kits, located in Palmer, Massachusetts. Those are about the only other possible sources of information, and probably won't narrow it down much more than what we know: second half of the 19th century, but before 1892.Best,GerryBest. Using a shotgun shell (a self-contained cartridge with multiple small, sphere-shaped projectiles) instead of a usual bullet is what makes a shotgun a separate kind of a gun. Introduced for handguns in 1894, rifles over 8mm in 1897. Most double shotguns represented here. I have a vintage double barrel that I have a few questions about. Joseph Farrell on October 27, 2020: The 12.65 I take to mean 12 gauge with 2 1/2" chambers (70 would be the modern 2 3/4"). Board Of Rich engraved. The famous "hump back" was made in countless configurations and gauges. for identifying the acceptance and proof marks as it appears, many Measuring the bore diameter and chamber Christophe Louis Baker, David J. Guns and rifles built in Germany and the German principalities before the 1890s typically did not carry proof marks, but the 1891 proof law "grandfathered" these arms by mandating that they be submitted to the proof house and marked with a crown-over-V, the V standing for vorrat or "on hand". These marks have all the characteristic appearance of a rectangle, with a small blob at the top rather like a tied up sack of corn. and an eagles head. By Alain Daubresse. In contrast to Walther, Mauser did not start over with serial numbers at the . BELGIAN FLOBERT SINGLE SHOT RIFLE: Circa. It has punched on one side of barrel 17.2, on the other side punched JC, EL ,pinfire symbol, K and crown on its top, E LG little crown under them in oval.Please help me to get the closest identification for this nice firearm. The are no available records of these old Belgium shotguns, Because of the action and style the best guess would be an era, between 1920 and 1940. Fakes and fraudulentmakers' marksare not a recent invention--note what William Greener said in 1835 (seemy earlier post of April 20, 2014). The date stamps is not used on all guns, otherwise that is the most accurate. No small part of the Belgians' remarkableability to meet the demands of a wide variety of firms trading all over the world was their willingness to go on producing type of guns that were obsolete. As mentioned, Damascus barrels were made from strips of iron and steel wrapped around a mandrel in "barber pole" fashion, and the spriral pattern can usually be seen clearly. referred to more commonly as "Proof Marks", Thanks Brandon. Search. Project Upland. The idea behind such a test is to verify the strength of the barrel, breech and firing system of a firearm by deliberately firing an over-pressured cartridge. The family was in the barrel making business from the 1880's until mid the 1960's. http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies d/a delcour dupont gb.htm This is Jean-Baptiste Delcour-Dupont and his son Oscar, 1924. "Arsenal" or "Inspector Marks". Email: Info@hlebooks.com My grandfather was a hunter long back in time just after WW2 and I have his shotgun in memory of him. CLIMAS Tradename used by J. Stevens Arms Co. on guns. Each new gun is presented in a best oak and leather case complete with canvas outer and a full complement of accessories. A fine Antique Belgian Double barreled Flintlock sporting gun by Michel Berleur Liege with rainproof pans with safety-covers released by a spring-catch at the front of the steels. Closset Louis On barrels and actions of smoothbore guns with the gauge size. %PDF-1.3 The "1136" might be the serial number for that pair of pistols. Sounds like a 19th C. Belgian pinfire shotgun (grin). Any idea how to date it? stream Based only on the pictures, those barrels do not appear to be Damascus. Thank you Jerry. The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time. Hand Guns 8 Rifles-Shotguns 2 . A Adaptive Tactical Shotguns American Tactical Shotguns B Baikal Shotguns Barrett Shotguns Benelli Shotguns Beretta Shotguns Blaser Shotguns Browning Shotguns C Century Shotguns Charles Daly Shotguns Chiappa Shotguns Some older foreign manufactured firearms, such as pistols from Spain and Italy, will list a location, rather than a manufacturer. marks tell the country of origin of the weapon. The earliest 3D-printed guns were crude single-shot devices. Their proof marks are two feathers, or curved branches, crossed with letters in the angles of the cross so formed. I found a couple on this site and also nramuseum.com leading me to believe its a British or Belgian gun. To my knowledge, there isn't a book out that covers European proof marks: If someone knows about such a book, please add a comment with that information. Broqua & Scholberg Sorry! Four barrel . I can't ID the 'RM', who was likely the barrel maker. Once tested and successful the weapon was stamped with a seal to 2023 Military Pay Chart Military Ranks DoD Dictionary Conversion Calculators Military Alphabet Code Military Map Symbols The "Military Factory" name and MilitaryFactory.com logo are registered U.S. trademarks protected by all applicable domestic and international intellectual property laws. Proof marks are the official stamps or ciphers showing that a barrel has been properly tested with the prescribed excess charges of powder and ball that allow a large factor of safety to the user. Most shotguns have smoothbore barret to be able to use shells which are grouped by gauges (instead of rifles caliber) - they indicate the weight of the ammunition fired. be reproduced, in part or in whole, without the written permission of '. Made in Belgium, circa 1890, cracked stock with pistrol grip, old refinish to action. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2. "Proofs" as they are sometimes referred to have changed over M Mecar (4 P) Pages in category "Firearm manufacturers of Belgium" carefully bound by threads. The rifle requirements were developed through a process of lengthy trials and included, most notably, the box magazine that could be loaded by stripper clip or by. Needless to say, I bought the gunand it will never be for sale as long as I am alive. I'll test it very cautiously. After years of looking at and trying Entries are listed by initial year of service descending, then grouped by designation (A-to-Z) to better showcase a given country's evolution in the field of infantry arms. Nowadays these firearms are mostly used for hunting or kept at home for self-defence. Bernard Alphonse It could be almost anything: an English Greener, which would have Birmingham, England, proof marks, or it could be a double of dubious origin. This will be an on going Have had this gun in family for as far as i remember at least 40 years. 1840-1860. No maker's name at all. Some were sold in Stoeger catalogs in the early 60s. Very little: I'm assuming it isn't a muzzleloader but a breechloader, which means it could be as early as 1860-1865, say. - Galoppin weapon. Side by side shotguns of this era are highly collectable and our inventory changes frequently. It could be of relatively recent manufacture. The wood does not look ancient so I am guessing in the 1970s or so. No maker's name anywhere? It is located just above the circle with ELG. Is there a stamp of LLH on the tubes forward of the flats? location, rather than a manufacturer. Example of inspectors mark, any letter can be used with a crown. Smith & Wesson markets gun accessories, handcuffs, safes, apparel, watches, collectibles, knives, tools, air guns, and myriad other products under its brand name, including cologne, handbags, and washing machines. I had a gunsmith replace some springs and open the choke. Bazin F.J. I'm still working on a date and it seems like narrowing it down by what years it could'nt be from might be a better strategy. Can't help much w/o some photos (send to ghcox3@gmail.com). Ray D, STOGERS, advertised them as being made for the AFRICAN tribes to hunt with because with them they would not be able to rebel against the BELGIAN rulers who had modern arms. Liege, in Belgium, has always been celebrated for its weapons, and established its proof house as a municipal enterprise on May 10, 1672, when it was laid down that barrels should be marked with the stamp of the city, and unproved weapons might not be sold under pain of a fine of a gold florin and the confiscation of the unproved barrel. Cap Joseph Collings Hadelin Sixteen-gauge guns generally fall somewhere in between. Ancion DD & Fils If I was asked for a guess for a dollar I would say mid 1930's. 1890, double bbl shotgun, 12 ga, 30" bbls. of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most typical pieces of his B. Tradename on guns made in Belgium, c.1900. source of Manufacturer Serial Numbers. I also looked at other European proof marks but didn't find the one you mention: compare http://www.cornellpubs.com/Catalog/proof-marks-intl.pdf. I've owned two Belgian side by sides and two Browning Superposed, so I guess I can say that I have some acquaintance withtwentieth centuryones, but unlike my posts on antique English shotguns I don't have an antique Belgian one at hand to describe. Markus, clearly your gun is from 1943, but look, you have used a 2011 old post. I can't find any other mumbers on the gun other than the multiple proof markings that I will post later. barrel began as a means to insure its safety and integrity. It was used by a myriad of hunters for all kinds of wild game. The proof marks shown below will assist in determining nationality of manufacturers when no other markings are evident. So I'd guess it was made in the late 1800's. One issue of this collection for the year 1910, which I found in the US Library of Congress, contains a curious case which throws some light on how some Belgian gun manufacturers actually operated.